Wednesday, November 15, 2006

Letter from Oxford

This post is a sort of letter to my friends in the Cornell Society for a Good Time in which I relate odds and ends about my time in Oxford over the past few weeks.

I begin by saying that my time in England has enabled me to discover another dimension of the heresy of Americanism: an abhorrence of doublets. (Naturally, I base my conclusions upon one instance.) As for doublets themselves, one either appreciates their inherent worth or one does not; but there is no argument, excepting an appeal to a sort of atavism, in their defense. At any rate, how did it come to be that in the American translation of the Salve, Regina we say: "Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, etc." whereas the English translation retains the doubled "salve" of the Latin: "Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of mercy, hail! our life, our sweetness, and our hope." Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae, vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve.

*******

As anyone would imagine, the libraries in Oxford are wonderful. I knew this before, but when I first studied here, I was doing Hebrew and Jewish studies. Now, my interests and reading are mostly in the area of Classics and medieval philosophy. In what is called the lower reading room of the main Bodleian library, one finds all the classical works in three rooms which are connected to what is called the theology reading room. In the theology reading room I sit, because there, I need but walk a step or two and I have the opera omnia of Thomas, Bonaventure, Albert, Scotus - to give some instances - besides all the writings of the Church Fathers, Latin and Greek, and the other authors of the medieval period besides.

I imagine that there are few libraries with such a complete collection combined with such a convenient arrangement for the classical and medieval student. (Apparently, the former head of libraries at Cornell is the recently appointed head of the Bodleian, and the first woman to hold the post. I was so pleased to hear the news.)

Of course, for the most part, one can find the books I mentioned in the library at Cornell and at many others, and these books aren't yet the real treasures of the Oxford libraries. No, the treasures are found among their rare books and manuscripts. On Monday morning, I went to Magdalen College where I had an appointment with the librarian. I had a question about an alternate manuscript reading given in Nicholas Wicki's critical edition of Philip the Chancellor's Summa de bono. My question was precise; it was really but two words that I needed to see. In the phrase from the critical edition, "vel ipsum tempus finitum", I thought it would make more sense if it read, "vel ipsum tempus infinitum," given the argument. Then, a sentence later, I wanted to see a "si" rather than a "sed."

When I arrived at Magdalen, I went first to the New Library, and then I was directed to the Old. I was at Magdalen College for the reason that their Latin Manuscript 66 is one of 14 which Wicki used to put together the critical edition. Unfortunately, the manuscript with the variant I was interested in - infinitum instead of finitum - is in Padua. Still, I thought I would double check Wicki's work and make sure that he hadn't missed a few letters in Magdalen's manuscript.

I was impressed both by the library and the librarian. The room itself is simple, rectangular in dimension, with windows for light in between the shelves and shelf after shelf of old, brown, leathern looking bindings. It reminded me of the Duke Humphries reading room in the Bodleian, though the room in Magdalen is not as ornate as Duke Humphries.


There was no one in this library room at Magdalen except for me and the librarian. In fact, the librarian was there just for me. Latin Manuscript 66 awaited me at a desk by a window, already laid out on the cushioned props used for reading books with delicate bindings. However, with the text, it was as I feared, and that in two respects. First, it was extremely difficult to read; second, I was only able to confirm the good work which Wicki had already done.

I had no previous experience with manuscripts, except for a glimpse or two of photocopies which thoroughly impressed me with the difficulty of reading them. As Wicki had noted, the hand in MS Lat 66 is very regular - a helpful thing! - but I would need some introduction to paleography to appreciate or to read fluently from this manuscript. Thankfully, I had a good idea of where the passage I was interested in occurs relative to the beginning of the book. Consulting my notes while looking very carefully at the dense, black column of writing, I was able to find the very words I had wanted to see. The task of finding the right spot was eased somewhat by illuminated letters - not overly fancy, but nonetheless striking - with which each new section began.

I was only there for an half hour or so. It took me a few minutes to find my place in the book, another few to make notes about what I had seen, and then I was done. It seems that the librarian was slightly disappointed; I think she had expected me to be able to give an appraisal of the manuscript as a whole. Would that I could have! but I'm in the business as a philosopher, and I tried to explain to her why my visit had been one more of curiosity rather than of great importance to my work. She asked me whether I wouldn't want to see the manuscript in Padua. This would be fun, but I'm confident that Wicki got the variant right in the first place, and if he did, I'm no better off than I was before. If he got it wrong, and there's not even one manuscript with the reading which I think makes sense, well, then two things. My supposition may well be wrong or what have I to say in defense of an emendation makes sense regardless of what the manuscripts say. In either case, the point is of relatively small importance to my chapter as a whole.

But to visit such a manuscript is the kind of thing which is possible in Oxford and in few other places.

*******

There are too many concerts and recitals each week in Oxford, but while I'm here, I like to go to one or two per week. On Tuesday night, Catharina Oxoniensis and I went to Christ Church Cathedral expecting to hear some Mozart and Shostakovich. As it turned out, I had bungled the date or the time or something, and so we walked most of the way back when we met two others going to a meeting of the Newman Society to hear a talk by the schismatic Bishop Kallistos Ware of Diokleia. For those of you unfamiliar with Bishop Kallistos, he is an Oxford academic, a member of the theology faculty, and also a monk of the Greek Orthodox monastery on the island of Patmos.

The Newman Society is the oldest continuous student society in Oxford; kind of surprising, I should think, given the age and traditions of this university. Unfortunately, the Newman Society is under the patronage of the university's Catholic chaplain, Fr. Jeremy Fairhead. I say "unfortunately" because Fr. Fairhead is a man given to views which I have long found unpleasant. He once referred to the Oxford Oratorians, in my presence, and knowing that I was a regular Mass goer there, as "ultra-montane." I have never forgotten this remark nor the strong sentiment which would have been necessary for him to speak it in my presence. Of course, I was only a new convert at the time, and what did I know?

Though I believe that the liturgical standard of the Chaplaincy is by and large decent (by Novus Ordo standards), Catharina Oxoniensis has attended some awful Masses there, including one offered by Fr. Nicholas King, S.J. Fr. King insisted that, during the Mass, no one kneel and that all should stand around the altar during the Consecration. Then, they were all given a host to hold in their hands after the Consecration and before the Communion. (Coming from Cornell, this is hardly scandalous or even worthy of mention!) But this is the kind of thing that goes on at the Chaplaincy which was first established at the University during the reign of Leo XIII of immortal memory.

At any rate, we were there last night to hear Bishop Kallistos speak about his life as a monk at the monastery on the island of Patmos. BIshop Kallistos is extremely articulate, clearly a very intelligent man, and an engaging speaker. I knew his name well, but I had never seen him in person nor heard him speak, so it was an agreeable evening.

*******

A final note. While Catharina Oxoniensis and I were at Blackfriars for Confession on Saturday evening, I picked up a little pamphlet they have there, among some others, about the martyrs of Oxford. The Catholic history of this University is wonderful, and I'm always inspired when I read about the English martyrs during the Protestant revolt. But in a characteristically liberal style, which I have come to expect from the English Dominicans, here is the opening paragraph of their pamplet:
Oxford's most famous martyrs are the bishops Hugh Latimer, Nicholas Ridley and Thomas Cranmer, who died courageously for their Protestant faith by being burnt to death, ironically the same method they themselves had approved of (when they still enjoyed the Crown's favour) for dealing with stubborn Catholics and other heretics.

After the opening paragraph, the rest of the pamplet is wonderful, but this is the sort of courageous nonsense talk which is found no less among Catholics in Oxford than in America. I wouldn't expect any less, though, from folks who have all sorts of "fair trade" posters tacked on the bulletin board near the confessional and to the rear of the nave.

There were goods part of the pamphlet, and this was my favorite:
Bl William Davies, seminary priest. Born at Croes-yn-Eirias, Denbighshire. Studied at St. Edmund Hall and Rheims, where he was ordained priest in 1585. Worked on the mission in North Wales. Condemned for priesthood. Compelled to attend Evensong during which he recited Vespers loudly and protested to the crowd that he "would rather die than take part in an heretical service." Hanged, drawn and quartered at Beaumaris, Anglesey, 27 July 1593.

I leave you with that piece of English inspiration!



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18 Comments:

At 11/15/2006 08:47:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Point of information: I can assure you that the Newman Society is not under the patronage of the University Chaplain, Fr Jeremy Fairhead. With his kind permission, we use one of the rooms in the Old Palace for our talks, but the Society remains as it has always been: a University Society separate from any particular parish or place of worship, self-governing and organised by an executive committee of matriculated students of the University. Fr Jeremy is an extremely good priest, and whatever horrors might have gone on at Chaplaincy Masses in earlier years, they do not occur any more. Things are done properly and tastefully, thank God.

 
At 11/15/2006 08:51:00 PM, Anonymous John Lamont said...

Fr. Fairhead hates the Tridentine mass too, apparently. Why people who are willing to do fairly decent NO masses have such strong feelings is beyond me, unless it is related to a desire for preferment. Did we ever meet when you were in Oxford? I am a tall Canadian who would have been trying to get as much drink in as possible at any social event.

 
At 11/16/2006 06:25:00 AM, Blogger Iosephus said...

Anonymous: of course I'm correct when I say that the Newman Society is under the patronage of Fr. Jeremy Fairhead, for the reason that "by his kind permission" the Newman Society has use of rooms and dining facilities in the Old Palace. Or do you think it unreasonable to suppose that, if the Newman Society no longer met with the favor of Fr. Fairhead, he would discontinue his "kind permission"?

Look, we've faced similar types of situations at Cornell. There are student groups which are, properly speaking, independent, but who defer, morally speaking, to the staff of the Catholic Chaplaincy. It's not so much the physical or financial patronage with which I'm concerned, though there is that element, as it is the spiritual or moral patronage.

For I should like to think that a group like the Newman Society would be a hot-bed for traditionalist angst and agitation. But rarely do you find undergraduates who are well read enough to launch into these issues whole-heartedly. Instead, though they may feel the beginnings of such concerns, they continue to defer to the powers that be.

Thus I think it's a constraint upon the Society that the powers that be are not in favor of tradition nor of the old Mass.

Now you allege that Fr. Jeremy is an extremely good priest. Great for him and you. I was only relating his opinion of the Oratorians; do you know if this opinion has changed, or would he continue to smear them as ultra-montanists? (And where do you, sir, go to Mass in Oxford?) When I know the Oratorians themselves to be questionable in some respects, I marvel that this Fr. Fairhead thinks them too right, too Roman.

My dear sir, the horrendous Mass I mentioned in connection with Catharina Oxoniensis and Fr. Nicholas King, S.J. happened last winter at the Chaplaincy. But it isn't the way of the Novus Ordo to enforce liturgical discipline, is it? Or to tell another priest that he won't be celebrating Mass in the Chaplaincy if such a thing happens again - that wouldn't be right friendly, would it?

No, indeed, the way of the Novus Ordo is to teach and instruct ignorant lay people about the beauties of such liturgical abominations, to bamboozle lay people into thinking that they were wrong even to question such practices. Which is what Sr. Nora Coughlan did to Catharina Oxoniensis: let's have a talk, she said, and I'll explain to you why Fr. Nicholas did what he did.

(If you send me your email address, I'll send you the correspondence.)

Dear John L., I don't believe that we ever met, but if we had, we might well have been mortal enemies in competition over the drink. ; ) Where are you based now? You do know that two of our writers are in Toronto, yes?

 
At 11/16/2006 07:45:00 PM, Anonymous John L said...

I'm actually in Australia. I never found anything very questionable about the Oratorians, aside from the limitations of normal human frailty - I fondly remember going to confession there and being told by the priest 'come back soon!' Of course he meant to encourage frequent confession rather than frequent sinning, but it gave a light touch to the occasion. On the subject of Fr. Fairhead, I am tempted (?right choice of words?) to regret my snide remark about him. I believe he is at least a Catholic, which is not the case for very many priests and bishops. I wonder if his sort of anti-traditionalism is not a kind of defence mechanism; faced with a horrendous pagan society which has great, even dominant, influence in the Church (cf. the power of the homosexual lobby at The Tablet), it is tempting to divert your attention to traditionalists as a supposed threat, and to justify your not taking a stand against this paganism by seeing yourself as keeping a middle way beween extremes. It would be good to find a way of getting people out of this defence mechanism rather than just criticising them (however justly) for indulging in it, but I don't have much idea of how to do that.

 
At 11/16/2006 08:45:00 PM, Anonymous Francois-Xavier said...

Josephus:
"For I should like to think that a group like the Newman Society would be a hot-bed for traditionalist angst and agitation. But rarely do you find undergraduates who are well read enough to launch into these issues whole-heartedly."

Are you seriously suggesting that a Roman Catholic students' Society, particularly one with as long and glorious a history as the Newman, should become a hot-bed of angst and agitation for the traditionalist movement? That would get none of us anywhere. As for your questioning of members' intelectual abilities to enter into such debates, the Newman has often had talks/discussions on the nature of liturgical reform and the benefits of the Church's rich liturgical tradition (Just look at some past termcards). I don't see why such debate needs to be negative. Too many traditionalists have made a mockery of the case for the return of the Traditional Latin Mass by resorting to exactly the 'angst and agitation' you mention, along with an attitude of ceaseless complaint, scandal-mongering and gossip. No bishop will ever take that sort of attitude seriously; none of this is good for the future of the Latin Mass in this country.
Fr Jeremy, as far as I know, does not 'hate' the Tridentine Mass. To suggest otherwise is an insult to the clear intelligence of a priest who has tried his best to restore normality and taste back to a Chaplaincy which had greatly suffered since the conciliar period. I imagine he hates the politics that surrounds the celebration of the Tridentine rite, particularly in a place like Oxford. Thank God that at least there is the chance to attend nicely said Masses in Oxford, whether at the Oratory (8am or 11am) or at the Catholic Chaplaincy (11am).

Positive, realistic actions and debates can help a great deal. A negative attitude, coupled with unsupportive and often insulting comments (it can only be called 'bitching') do NOT help.

 
At 11/16/2006 10:43:00 PM, Blogger Iacobus said...

Not knowing the particulars of the Oxford situation, I can only assure you, dear Francois, that we at the Cornell Society for a Good Time, against the wishes of a certain British prelate, are quite convinced of the merits of unflinchingly positive and realistic traditionalist dialogue - a hearty trad-ecumenism, if you will. Unfortunately, we are also convinced agitators for the Mass of the Ages, and oftentimes swollen with that rank traditionalist angst which I've been told affects only the most intellectual of pious souls.

 
At 11/17/2006 01:22:00 PM, Anonymous Iosephus said...

I appreciate your point, John L.

Okay, Francois-X., I went a little over board. I just would have hoped that for a group like the Newman Society, the old Mass would be their Mass of choice, and that they would add their efforts, in a positive, constructive, and non-criticising way, to the efforts of others who are working in Oxford for the spread of the old Mass.

For instance, there is a weekly old rite on Wednesday evenings at SS. Gregory and Augustine, but where is everyone? You have to start out by voting with your feet, by showing support for these kinds of things, even if you don't want to go so far as complaining, scandal-mongering, and gossping (as I like to do).

 
At 11/21/2006 07:55:00 AM, Anonymous Iohannes said...

Criticisms of Fr Fairhead are unfounded. He has restored weekly Benediction, Adoration, and recitation of the Holy Rosary. There is a Latin Mass every Friday morning, and the Sunday Mass is often the Missa de Angelis. He is not a traditionalist, but neither his orthodoxy nor his conformity to the current rubrics can be questioned. Furthermore, it's not a criticism to say the Oratorians are "ultramontane"; it's a stylistic observation. I very much doubt he criticised the Oratory for being "too right, too Roman". He's as in line with Rome as one can be.

As for the Society: the current Newman Society President is on the cover of Mass of Ages, the Latin Mass Society magazine. Recent Newman speakers have included representatives from the Association for Latin Liturgy, Joanna Bogle, and Fr John Saward. Short of renaming itself the "Lefebvre Society", alienating everyone, and spending all its time engaging in detraction and slander, I do wonder what it is that Iosephus expects the Newman Society to do.

 
At 11/21/2006 09:40:00 AM, Blogger Br Lawrence, O.P. said...

As you're such a stickler for authentic translations of Latin texts, tell me, from where in the "Salve Regina, mater misericordiae etc" does one derive 'Hail Holy Queen'?

 
At 11/21/2006 10:32:00 AM, Blogger Iosephus said...

Thank you, Br. Lawrence. I don't know, perhaps because it sounds better rythmically? Is it just what I'm used to, or does it sound strange to say, "Hail, Queen, Mother of Mercy"? In English, don't we like to stick something with "queen" - would you ever address Elizabeth, "Queen, would like some more tea?"

Iohannes, I feel bad if you think that I was too hard on the Newman Society. However, you do exaggerate when you thinks that Society tantamount to a Lefebvre Society.

It's just a different game here in Oxford, I think.

If my friends from Cornell and I had all been at Oxford, we probably would never have formed the Society for a Good Time. We might have met each other, maybe, but probably not. Things are, generally speaking, so solid here at Oxford, and there are so many choices - Blackfriars, the Chaplaincy, Greyfriars, the Oratory, SS. Augustine & Gregory - that people sort of drift to their natural level.

Ithaca, NY is actually a great place for traditionalism to grow beacuse things are so bad there. When you see a living example of how rotten things are, you're forced to step back, begin to think the whole thing over, and dive into the reading, the texts, the encyclicals and see what Rome has and hasn't been saying over the past 100 years. You can look at what the popes said and say, and what the Council did and didn't say. And then you become a traditionalist - or John Boy (a frequent commenter on this blog of a happy and dogmatic N.O. character).

Then, once you're a traditionalist, and you come to Oxford, you see the N.O. fluff for what it is, hear the preaching for what it is and isn't, and you're no longer content, even if, on the whole, it's decent.

If you feel like you're in a fight for the very Faith in Ithaca, when you come to Oxford and strike the same attitude, people say, "Dude, chill out! What are you so worked up about?"

But the issues here with the Novus Ordo Regime aren't any different, they just manifest themselves on a smaller scale, or confine themselves more to the churches one doesn't frequent oneself. Look at my post on Sunday about the preaching at Blackfriars.

What might I have expected the Newman Society to do? Where are the old rite Masses which the Newman Society has hosted or sponsored? I was only surprised - I'm not saying it's wrong - that I don't see more of its members at the old rite at the Oratory on Sunday and at the old rite on Wednesday evening at SS. Gregory and Augustine. If the Chaplaincy is your preferred to place to transact business, why not encourage the Chaplain (or some priest) to say an old rite for the Society once a week or once a month or some such thing? But I don't think that idea would be very popular with Fr. Jeremy, would it?

Now while all the rest of you were so hot and bothered about the few lines I wrote in this post about the Newman Society, when I think back about what I wrote, I keep thinking about that beautiful book which I saw in Magdalen, and how difficult it was to read.

There was one more thing that I wanted to mention in that regard, namely I wanted to call your attention again to a post I wrote about Angelo Cardinal Mai. Having seen what some of these old, hand-written works look llike, I'm all the more amazed at what he was able to do with mere palimpsests.

 
At 11/21/2006 05:28:00 PM, Blogger Br Lawrence, O.P. said...

Personally, I would say: "Hail, O Queen, O Mother of mercy" which is how vocatives should traditionally be translated... My point is that your desire for absolute fidelity to the Latin text is not always accurate, because even you allow for the vernacular idiom.

The reasons you give ("sounds better etc") can well sound like the kind of subjective approach to translation that ICEL undertook and is (rightly) lambasted for.

If you can have such a charitable and broad regard for the translation of the 'Salve' which you have been accustomed to, could you not perhaps be similarly charitable and prudent in your critique of my English Dominican brethren and Fr Fairhead?

There is nothing wrong per se with a priest not celebrating the Mass according to the 1962 books. He is under no obligation to do so and the chaplain is not morally or duty bound to facilitate its celebration. This is especially true in Oxford when the pastoral needs of those attached to the "old rite" can be served amply in the Oratory and Ss Augustine & Gregory. And yet you see fit to criticize the chaplain and the Newman Society on this point. Hardly justified nor charitable is it? It's beginning to sound rather like carping, I fear.

Finally, I strongly suspect your talk of "Old Rite Regime" etc, in the light of your manifest attraction to the SSPX, smacks of the kind of "schismatic mentality" that Pope John Paul II and the then-Cardinal Ratzinger warned against. As the Prefect of the CDF wrote in 1998:

"While it is true that participation in the Mass at the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X does not of itself constitute "formal adherence to the schism," such adherence can come about over a period of time as one slowly imbibes a schismatic mentality which separates itself from the teaching of the Supreme Pontiff and the entire Catholic Church classically exemplified in A Rome and Econe Handbook which states in response to question 14 that 'the SSPX defends the traditional catechisms and therefore the Old Mass, and so attacks the Novus Ordo, the Second Vatican Council and the New Catechism, all of which more or less undermine our unchangeable Catholic faith.'

It is precisely because of this schismatic mentality that this Pontifical Commission has consistently discouraged the faithful from attending Masses celebrated under the aegis of the Society of St. Pius X."

But in charity, I would like to think you merely have a love for the "traditional liturgy" and want the worship of God and the Holy Sacrifice to be rendered with all the dignity and beauty we human beings can muster. Perhaps you could show the same charity to your fathers in Christ, the chaplain and the Regent of Blackfriars?

 
At 11/22/2006 10:47:00 AM, Blogger Joe Six Pack said...

Attack of the neo-conservative Catholics!

But Iosephus is up the challenge.

In perfect neo-con style they don't address his points at issue, only his right to speak, his style in how he says it, etc. etc.

Meanwhile the 'conservative' priests are lauded over because hey, look how bad they could be!

From God the Holy Ghost:

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot.

But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth

 
At 11/22/2006 11:06:00 AM, Blogger Br Lawrence, O.P. said...

Joe:

1. One couldn't begin to address the point you make because your comment is incoherent. May I invite you to actually make a point in order that one may respond?

2. The issue of 'style' with regard to translation etc was made by Iosephus to begin with.

3. No mention of rights was made. And even should any 'right' have been mentioned (itself a 20th century notion which Iosephus and ilk would seem to abhor), one would have to say that every right has a consonant responsibility and duty. In this case, one has a duty to speak with charity and prudence. I fear these qualities are somewhat lacking in a fair number of Iosephus' postings.

4.I am more than happy to address the points that Iosephus makes with regard to Fr Finn's homily of Sunday past but I believe that has been amply covered in the comments pertinent to that post.

5.Is the quotation from yesterday's Reading at Mass meant to 'up the ante' on quotations? God the Holy Ghost vs The Prefect of the CDF? If so, that is ludicrous. If not, irrelevant to the discussion.

However I would agree that the quotation from Revelation is a grace and a challenge to us all in our Christian lives. Thank you, at least, for that reminder.

 
At 11/22/2006 11:53:00 AM, Blogger Iosephus said...

As you're such a stickler for authentic translations of Latin texts

Okay, I tried to deal with your query seriously, but you, Br. L., only made it, apparently, to point out that I've been blind to my own preference for particular incorrect translations from the Latin.

Thank you for reminding me how vocatives are traditionally translated. I know very well what the Latin says.

Since the Nervous Disorder has obviously debilitated your sense of humor - no, my comment about the Salve, Regina is not about precise Latin translations. It's a JOKE about doublets, the heresy of Americanism, etc. What in the world, after all, does the failure to include a reduplicated word in a translation have to do with the heresy of Americanism??

It's not the kind of joke, I'm afraid, that a Novus Ordo guy is going to appreciate. In fact, probably the only person who would find it funny at all is my fellow author, Iacobus.

But if you're familiar with Bugnini on the need to purge - "trim", let's say - doublets from various liturgical texts, including the Litany of Saints, you'd understand why I said what I said.

Now Br. Lawrence, what did you find uncharitable in my remarks about Fr. Finn's homily? Honestly, sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, I wrote the post not from disgust or anger, but with the genuine intention to give some constructive criticism about what is and is not appropriate for a homily. Though a priest should know better than I, yes, maybe from time to time, an outside perspective isn't unbeneficial. I've spoken a little more about this in my comment under that post.

But it turns out, I'm afraid, that I dealt too gently with the man. A subsequent comment informed me of something I hadn't known, that Fr. Finn is cozy with gay "Catholics", or at least this gay group, Quest. Which puts him squarely in the gay-loving Fr. Timothy Radcliffe camp. "Camp" is just the word I'm looking for, isn't it?

If gay-loving priests are your thing, or if that's what you call charity, it seems you, Brother, found the right province in the right order.

I'd throw a quote or two at you from the C-C-C about grave disorders and all that, but that might discomfit your Dominican brethren.

Br. L., I don't know what N.O. ideas you've got in your head, but "charity" isn't failing to point out error, especially when it's public, or failing to criticise when someone, especially a priest, with a public office and responsibility, is warm and fuzzy with gays or speaks about them in a way which would be called ambiguous at best.

 
At 11/22/2006 12:45:00 PM, Blogger Br Lawrence, O.P. said...

Iosephus:

1. If you'd only intended your point about the 'Salve' as a joke, why did you not say so initially but actually attempt to "deal with [my] query seriously"? I'm afraid this medium simply doesn't allow the reader to differentiate between tones of speaking.

2. What in the world, after all, does the failure to include a reduplicated word in a translation have to do with the heresy of Americanism??

Search me. But that does not stop you from attributing all manner of ludicrous notions to 'heresies'.

3. It's not the kind of joke, I'm afraid, that a Novus Ordo guy is going to appreciate. In fact, probably the only person who would find it funny at all is my fellow author, Iacobus.

This means that Iacobus is the only non-"Novus Ordo guy" in the world... Fine, if that's what you want to assert. But, as ever, you're making vast assumptions about the world and about me.

Moreover, if only Iacobus would find this 'joke' funny, why publish it on a public site? Or perhaps snide private jokes are your wont?

4. About Fr Richard Finn's homily and my brethren:

You say: "I wrote the post not from disgust or anger, but with the genuine intention to give some constructive criticism about what is and is not appropriate for a homily" but then you also say:
"but "charity" isn't failing to point out error, especially when it's public"

So tell me, did you find the homily merely inappropriate, as you aver, or do you hold that there was error. The latter is a more serious contention which I have addressed in the actual post. Such inconsistencies will not do, sir!

You also say: "If gay-loving priests are your thing..."

Yes, as a matter of fact, that is my thing! It is 'my thing' that priests are sinner-loving, because if not, this would be a terrible church indeed.

You then become rather agitated about the attempts of shepherds to herd homosexuals back into the embrace of the Church. You say:
"I'm afraid, that I dealt too gently with the man" and then descend rapidly into name-calling.

Both this statement and this action, Iacobus, is contrary to the Catholic virtue of charity and it is this lack that I am charitably calling your attention to.

Alas, all too many so-called 'traditionalists' think that merely "telling it as it is", is equated with the truth and they justify this under the holy name of charity. But that understanding of charity is insufficient.

Charity, as St Paul tells us "is patient, is kind; charity feels no envy; charity is never perverse or proud, never insolent; does not claim its rights, cannot be provoked, does not brood over an injury; takes no pleasure in wrong-doing, but rejoices at the victory of truth."

Charity is all of those things and it is charity that motivates my brothers in St Dominic to reach out to the homosexual Catholics. It is compassion that moves Fr Finn to preach in favour of the poor and to contribute to the work of 'Quest'. The Lord came to call sinners to conversion, not the righteous. I contend that this is what Fr Finn and Fr Radcliffe aim to do.

The CCC 2357 teaches that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered" and also insists in CCC 2358 that homosexuals must be treated with "respect, compassion and sensitivity" and called to perfect chastity through prayer, the sacraments etc. These certainly require the ministry of a priest, do they not? If a priest may not reach out to those who need him, what use is he? Or perhaps you'd prefer priests to operate chantries?

Once again, there is no error or heresy in what Fr Finn or Fr Radcliffe are doing. The onus of proof lies on you and so far, your lack of charity does not lie in your favour.

 
At 11/22/2006 01:31:00 PM, Blogger Iacobus said...

Br. Lawrence,

You seem determined to find fault with everything Iosephus says, and harass him most doggedly. I can only imagine that this is because you are new to our blog and particularly uncomfortable with our style - or perhaps only Iosephus bothers you? Unfortunately, we do not have the time to hash out a common sense of humor with every newcomer, especially when they have the effrontery to accuse us, with paltry evidence, of being carping uncharitable schismatics. Yours is a serious charge, even though you let it out with (what seems to me) a wink.

In response to your question about whether it is appropriate for Iosephus to put a purportedly snide private joke in a post, I answer most heartily in the affirmative. The intended audience was most pleased. If hinted jokes about doublets seriously irritate you, I must sincerly urge you not to visit our blog anymore - and not because there is any problem with you, but because of a natural conflict of personality.

 
At 11/22/2006 03:23:00 PM, Blogger Br Lawrence, O.P. said...

The members of this blog can only be characterised as irresponsible if this is the way they behave and respond to public criticism.

You must surely be aware that a blog is not a club; it is a publication open to the general public and their scrutiny.

If you wanted a club, WordPress has private blogs or resort to e-mail!

As for evidence: One can cite Wren's epitaph: "Lector, si monumentum requiris circumspice". This blog is the evidence and by your own writings you have provided the evidence.

Yes, I am new here and I sought you out precisely because Iosephus' comments had caused some upset within the Oxford Catholic community. If he did not mean to cause any upset, he ought to apologize or face up to the inadequacy of his statements, or add a disclaimer that he is jesting.

I "harass" Iosephus because he wishes to unjustly and wrongfully harass and vilify the English Dominicans, meanly picking on every detail. I give him a taste of his own medicine. If he has the gumption to place his unpleasant opinions online, he should be man enough to deal with the flak.

Otherwise, he had better desist immediately.

Either way, I have and shall continue to pray for this blog's writers and readers.

 
At 12/09/2006 06:41:00 PM, Anonymous Mertonensis said...

Br L., you are a tiresome Dominican! Thank God you have ceased your carping at this post, to which I am lately arrived.

It seems you would defend your brother God-dogs more than show understanding towards a valiant lay blogger. A tiresome, narrow religious thou art.

Brave Iosephus is a fine Catholic! Deep in the water! Vivat et valeat!

Fr Fairhead is most certainly an enemy of tradition. He did all he could to prevent the CIEL conference taking place in Oxford this year. Nasty, nasty. We must be grateful to the Anglican chaplain of Merton for making it possible. Et per haereticum triumphat Omnipotens.

Novus Ordo types are tiresome, unless they admit the insufficiencies of the New Order, and long with all their hearts for the return of the Old, the good.

 

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